Executive Director of NC Project Lead Juanita Harper invited several local politicians to join one of two panels to discuss education funding policies, affordable housing, the possibility of collective bargaining rights, investments in rural communities, and the extension of tax credits and/or the plausibility of universal basic income.
The panelists were Columbus County Commissioner Barbara Featherson, Senate Majority Leader Michael Lee, Pender County Commissioner Jimmy Tate, and New Hanover County Commissioner Rob Zapple. Reggie Shuford, who grew up in Wilmington, is the CEO and president of the Independence Foundation in Philadelphia and is the former executive director of the North Carolina Justice Center.
No political support for collective bargaining
HB256, sponsored by lawmakers from Mecklenburg and Durham counties, died in committee. It would have legalized collective bargaining for government employees.
Featherson said she wasn’t sold on the idea and leaned toward no because of the potential impact of that bargaining on state budgets. Lee agreed with her and also brought up the plausible scenario of government workers going on strike and how disruptive that would be. He highlighted that government employees should form coalitions to lobby politicians for higher wages.
“The State Highway Patrol raises came up just recently because [they] reached out to a number of us and gave us information comparing our pay with adjoining states and how the recruitment was working in Tennessee, Virginia, and South Carolina, and that pathway, I think, is very effective,” he said.
The Senate’s budget proposal included a 9% raise for the highway patrol over the next two years.
Tate and Zapple both agreed that collective bargaining has pros and cons. Zapple shared how his union membership gave him the financial stability to support his family and buy his first house; however, he would not support it because of what he thought it could do to rural counties.
“There is [sic] 80-plus counties that are not in that strong [economic] position so collective bargaining throughout our state would really hurt those smaller counties, and I'm respectful of that. I understand that they wouldn't be able to afford sheriffs, etc,” he said
However, Shuford jokingly said, “Surprise, surprise, I’m for labor unions. [They] have been pivotal in many of our communities, particularly in Black communities, not always in the south, but certainly up north and other places, and they serve vital functions, including much-needed improved wages, job security, let alone workplace conditions and protections. So many decades and generations of folks have benefited from collective bargaining,” he said. “It ain't always easy in reality or practice, but who said that being easy is the goal? So I think on balance, when employees feel secure and what they do, they're better employees, and the work they do is better, so we all benefit from that.”
Tax credits and universal basic income (UBI)
While the NC House bill on collective bargaining is dead, HB859, which stops local governments from pursuing iterations of universal basic income, is still in play.
The bill likely responded to the City of Durham and Durham County piloting UBI programs. The News and Observer reported that Durham City Mayor Pro Tem Mark-Anthony Middleton said the UBI program results were “incredibly positive. Folks used the money for bills, to get to job interviews. The recidivism rate of the people who participated was close to zero.” The Durham City plan gave over 100 people who had just left prison about $600 a month. The proposed Durham County plan would provide 125 families $750 a month for a year, but now it is in jeopardy under HB859.
UNC-Chapel Hill and Stanford University researchers have evaluated UBI studies, and they’ve seen that they improve people’s economic stability in several ways; however, a working paper by the National Bureau of Economic Research found that their research supports both sides of the debate on the effectiveness of UBI.
Featherson didn’t address the possibility of UBI; she said she wanted more targeted tax credits for those living at or below the poverty line, especially in rural areas. Lee also didn’t address the bill or UBI, but did speak on the Healthy Opportunities Pilot (HOP). He said he supported it and the cost savings it provides.
The program is available only to some Medicaid recipients who qualify. The program's framework allows 46 Health Service Organizations (HSOs) in the Cape Fear region to get reimbursements for their services. Tate also touted the work of HOP.
When asked whether Lee feared federal cuts to Medicaid that could jeopardize the program, he didn’t appear worried and said they’d already gotten the waiver extension for another five years.
Zapple mentioned expanding the earned income tax credit and child tax credit but said he wouldn’t support UBI programs.
Shuford was the only panelist who said some degree of a UBI would benefit the community.
“We should also be piloting basic income programs that provide financial stability and promote a very important American value, economic mobility,” Shuford said.
Funding for education
The Education Law Center released a December report showing North Carolina ranked 48th among states in funding level and 49th in funding effort, spending $4,868 less per student than the national average. However, it did rank 12th in providing more funding to school districts with higher rates of student poverty.
Featherson responded that the state needs to change the allotment formula for the number of educators it provides and focus its funding efforts on rural communities.
Shuford wanted to focus on funding the Leandro Plan, which has been stalled in the courts. If the plan were funded, school districts, mainly rural ones, across the state would receive part of the $678 million total allotment.
In his prior statements to WHQR, Lee has said that they’ve funded parts of the plan already and stood by the general GOP opinion that the courts cannot mandate the amount that the legislature funds public schools. When asked about the Education Law report, Lee pivoted to North Carolina ranking 12th in education according to U.S News for things like the amount of debt students have upon graduating college, high school graduation rates, and national math scores. He said he likes to focus on “outputs” from the educational system, not necessarily “inputs” — what is put into the system, like funding levels.
He also discussed counties funding more of the educational system. Last year, New Hanover County Schools, for example, received 30% from the county commission, 54% from the state, and 16% from the federal government. Lee would like to see the county and the state contribute 45% each, and the federal government send 10% for the NHCS operational budget.
Tate said he wanted to increase the teacher supplement offered to Pender County Schools educators and for the commission to work on disparities within the county’s schools, meaning some schools have higher levels of families in poverty.
Zapple also didn’t address the report but walked the audience through how the county funds NHCS. He said about 40% of the county’s total operating budget goes toward the school system. However, the total investment for this upcoming funding year is 31%, which includes Cape Fear Community College. He also spoke on how many local positions the county funds. He said 700, but according to last year’s budget file, the total number of employees funded was 581.
Affordable Housing
Featherson said one way to create this housing was to have rent controls, and thought that the prohibition against landlords from removing renters during the pandemic was a good policy.
Shuford suggested that the government pass policies favorable to inclusionary zoning. This would require developers to set aside some affordable units within each development, allowing for more neighborhoods with diverse incomes.
Lee highlighted the state’s investment in the Housing Finance Agency to shore up federal tax incentives for the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC). He said the legislature provided $200 million to help lessen the effects of inflation. Tate added that he wanted to see more funding go into the state’s Housing Trust Fund. Locally, he said he wanted sellers of affordable housing to have stricter standards for those who buy or rent these properties.
Zapple highlighted the county’s $15 million investment in affordable housing projects over five years. At the beginning of the forum, he told the audience about the negative impacts of HB765. This bill, which likely won’t be taken up this year, would have limited local governments’ control over development, and it could leave them open to lawsuits if they vote down a development. Lee agreed with Zapple and pointed out that it was a House bill, not a Senate one.
Rural community investment
Featherson said one way to support rural investment is to focus on community college vocational/apprenticeship training programs, like the ones at Southeastern Community College. Shuford said he wanted more broadband expansion, workforce development grants, and other tax incentives to create jobs.
Lee said he supported the state’s expansion by attracting ‘mega sites’ (over 1,000 acres) like Toyota’s battery manufacturing plant to Liberty, North Carolina. He said the legislature is working with Duke Energy to provide enough energy to attract these types of businesses. At one point, he almost mentioned a large company coming to the state, but he said the public would find out about the investment within the next couple of months.
Like Featherson, Tate also mentioned the value of vocational training and talked about Pender County’s tax incentives that brought companies like Amazon and Acme Smoked Fish to the area. He added that he understood that not all companies can afford hefty fees to come to Pender County, but wanted to lower these costs for smaller businesses, mentioning Genesis Block. He said that Amazon paid over $800,000 in fees to Pender.
Zapple received some of the loudest applause for his comments on providing accessible early childhood education. He said this would help support rural economies in terms of job growth. The New Hanover County Commission funds eight preschool classrooms. Last year, they cost $1.9 million; this year, they are investing $2 million.
For a closing to the forum, Shuford, the only participant who wasn’t a politician, said, “The most important lever is an engaged citizenry that elects people who see them and value them, and prioritize them and their needs, and unelects those who don't.”
Editor’s Note: Rob Zapple is a member of the WHQR board of directors, which has no role in editorial decisions.
