LEILA FADEL, HOST:
High-profile supporters of President Trump are not backing down in Trump's fight with the pope.
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Vice President Vance, a practicing Catholic, border czar Tom Homan and House Speaker Mike Johnson have all defended the president.
FADEL: Let's bring in NPR senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro to talk about the politics of all of this. Good morning, Domenico.
DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: Hey. Good morning.
FADEL: So the administration has been doubling down on Trump's position. What is their defense?
MONTANARO: Well, I mean, lots of Christians, we know, were offended by that AI-generated image of Trump as Jesus that he posted on social media after his back-and-forth with Pope Leo. You know, Leo's really taken a stance against the Iran war. You know, Trump deleted that post after a backlash. He went so far as to claim that it was him as a doctor, though that was widely panned on social media. Vice President JD Vance, though, was more than happy to defend Trump. Here he was Tuesday night at a Turning Point USA event.
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JD VANCE: But I think that it's important. In the same way that it's important for the vice president of United States to be careful when I talk about matters of public policy, I think it's very, very important for the pope to be careful when he talks about matters of theology.
MONTANARO: You know, Vance was talking about the concept of just wars, noting that force is sometimes necessary like he said in the freeing of Holocaust survivors. But, I mean, telling a pope to be careful on matters of theology, that's really something.
FADEL: Yeah. What has Pope Leo been saying?
MONTANARO: Well, Leo's traveling in Africa and spoke with reporters on the papal plane. He talked about the importance of going to a mosque during a stop in Algeria and promoting a message of unity and peace. Here he is in a video posted by Reuters.
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POPE LEO XIV: To say that although we have different beliefs, we have different ways of worshiping, we have different ways of living, we can live together in peace. And so I think that to promote that kind of image is something which the world needs to hear today.
MONTANARO: So the world needs to hear today, he said. And the reality is Catholic teaching doesn't really align neatly with either American political party. For Trump, though, of course, everything is binary. You're either with him or against him.
FADEL: Presidents have been meeting with popes for a long time. But if Catholicism doesn't fit with either party, why is the relationship so important?
MONTANARO: Well, I mean, these are two of the highest-profile positions in the world. The American president represents a superpower. Popes represent a moral power. And American presidents want to be seen as a moral authority. You know, it helps their case in trying to sell their worldview. People like Ronald Reagan, for example, had a strong relationship with John Paul II because they both aligned against communism. And the world's superpower and moral power both saying communism is not the way to go certainly held a lot of weight.
But the U.S. is slipping when it comes to being a moral authority or perceived as one. A recent NPR/Ipsos poll, for example, found that just 39% of Americans said America is a moral authority. That's down from 60% in 2017. So the pope speaking out against Trump's actions come at a particularly vulnerable political time for this president.
FADEL: That's quite a drop. But what might the political effect of all this be, then, if any?
MONTANARO: You know, it's probably not going to mean a wholesale abandonment of this president by religious voters. They largely like him, voted for him. And a lot of conservatives, frankly, have been wary of the direction of the papacy since the elevation of Leo's predecessor, Pope Francis, who really focused on social justice issues. We have seen some dips for Trump with white evangelicals recently. And Latinos, who were critical for Trump in winning Catholics in 2024, have really moved heavily away from him since his inauguration for the second term. But that's more likely to do with negative views of the economy and the war rather than religion. So Trump and the Republican Party really can't afford to slip with anyone else.
FADEL: That's NPR's Domenico Montanaro. Thank you so much for your reporting, Domenico.
MONTANARO: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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