ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
There's a lot to listen to at NPR's D.C. headquarters, even in the elevators.
SUSAN STAMBERG, BYLINE: Going up.
SHAPIRO: That's the voice of Susan Stamberg announcing each floor.
STAMBERG: Third floor - newsroom.
SHAPIRO: Susan is in the DNA of this building and of NPR News. She's been with the network since its very beginning 54 years ago. And this week, she's retiring. She's been a host of ALL THINGS CONSIDERED and Weekend Edition Sunday. Most recently, she was a special correspondent covering the arts. She is often referred to as one of NPR's founding mothers. So I asked how she felt about the title, and it turns out...
STAMBERG: I made up the term.
SHAPIRO: Did you make up the term?
STAMBERG: Yes. Totenberg hates it.
SHAPIRO: Really?
STAMBERG: Yes (laughter).
SHAPIRO: I didn't know that.
STAMBERG: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
STAMBERG: Well, I was getting tired of these founding fathers, you know?
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
STAMBERG: Equal rights.
SHAPIRO: Totenberg, of course, being legal affairs correspondent, Nina Totenberg. Another title Susan held was first woman to host a nationally broadcast evening news program.
STAMBERG: That title did not pop into my mind until I'd been doing this for a while. And then I realized, oh, my gosh, this is really something. And, you know, like all women, you feel you have to be extra special good. Like all first people, you really have to meet the line to be taken seriously, and so others can follow.
SHAPIRO: Yeah.
STAMBERG: And that was certainly my attitude the whole time.
SHAPIRO: What did you love about radio?
STAMBERG: Oh, how much fun it was - the only radio I heard in those days was very formal. And so the air was open to any kind of imaginative stuff that we could put on, and people were pleased with it.
SHAPIRO: Give us an example of the imaginative kind of stuff you put on.
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STAMBERG: Well, my favorite moment (laughter) was an excruciatingly hot day in Washington, D.C.
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STAMBERG: Gosh, it's hot.
We went out and tested whether, in fact, you could fry an egg on the pavement.
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STAMBERG: OK. Here we go. I'm taking the egg. I'm holding it on the manhole cover. I'm cracking it.
And they went pfft (ph) - like that. They did nothing.
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STAMBERG: Are we going to get in trouble for littering? Could this be considered littering?
SHAPIRO: A line that has been attributed to you for the 25 years that I've been at NPR is the pictures are better on the radio.
STAMBERG: Oh, they always are. I'm gorgeous on the radio, I tell you.
(LAUGHTER)
SHAPIRO: What do you mean by the pictures are better on the radio?
STAMBERG: Oh, because anything you can imagine is usually better than what you actually see. So that's what I mean.
SHAPIRO: When I got an internship with NPR...
STAMBERG: Oh.
SHAPIRO: ...In 2001, I ran to Powell's bookstore in Portland, Oregon, and I bought a copy of your 1993 book, "Talk."
STAMBERG: And how much did you pay?
SHAPIRO: I don't think I want to tell you that because...
STAMBERG: They marked...
SHAPIRO: ...It was...
STAMBERG: ...It down...
SHAPIRO: ...It was a...
STAMBERG: ...Didn't they?
SHAPIRO: ...Used bookstore.
STAMBERG: Oh.
SHAPIRO: And in that book, you say your favorite interview was - do you remember?
STAMBERG: It was Joan Didion...
SHAPIRO: Yeah.
STAMBERG: ...To this day.
SHAPIRO: To this day.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: When Susan Stamberg recently interviewed Joan Didion...
SHAPIRO: What is it about that interview?
STAMBERG: Well, she was very reticent and didn't talk a lot. And to me, she did. And I said - one of the questions I remember what she said was, I guess I always see the underside of life.
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JOAN DIDION: The underside of the tapestry. I tend to always look for the wrong side, the bleak side. I mean, I have since I was a child. I mean, I have no idea...
SHAPIRO: After 14 years hosting ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, in 1986, you stepped away from the show. What made you decide to give it up?
STAMBERG: Well, first of all, I had cancer, and so it was a lot of pressure to continue trying to do that. And it was a good decision 'cause I helped put Weekend Sunday on the air.
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STAMBERG: Stef Scaggiari presiding over our beautiful baby grand Baldwin here in Studio 3. We'll hear...
SHAPIRO: One of your great innovations on Sunday mornings was...
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STAMBERG: Let's see.
SHAPIRO: ...The puzzle.
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STAMBERG: Oh, here it is. Here's what I was looking for. It's not the comics. It's the games. Will Shortz has promised to puzzle us on Weekend Edition. He is senior...
STAMBERG: Oh, I brought Will. I am so proud. I think that's the best thing I ever did.
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STAMBERG: ...Things, huh?
WILL SHORTZ: I have an original word puzzle for you today.
SHAPIRO: Why did you want to do a puzzle on Sunday mornings?
STAMBERG: Well, I thought in my mind, what do I like to do? I was always very personal - I guess it was almost egotistical about it. But I thought, what do I like to do on Sunday mornings? And I thought, I love to do the Sunday puzzle.
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STAMBERG: I don't know my military, really. General.
SHORTZ: Yes.
STAMBERG: A particular - oh, oh, specific general.
SHORTZ: That's right.
STAMBERG: Really?
SHAPIRO: You have so many legacies. You are also renowned for cranberry relish.
STAMBERG: (Laughter) I know.
SHAPIRO: How did that start?
STAMBERG: That's going to be on my obituary. It'll be the lead, you know?
SHAPIRO: (Laughter) Where did that begin?
STAMBERG: Well, I'll just tell you - first at WAMU, where I was, 'cause I thought...
SHAPIRO: So the relish tradition predates you hosting ALL THINGS CONSIDERED?
STAMBERG: Oh, way, way before. Yes.
SHAPIRO: Wow.
STAMBERG: Yes. Because I felt we needed tradition. Everyone was moving everywhere. And let's give them something stable that they look forward to every year.
SHAPIRO: I knew this was a tradition. I did not know that it was a 50-year-plus tradition.
STAMBERG: (Laughter).
SHAPIRO: So if we are going to choose one year's cranberry relish to play, which one should we choose?
STAMBERG: The best time at the time is I got all the White House chefs together.
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RENEE MONTAGNE: She got two former White House chefs to chat about the holiday in front of an audience and to tell some first family food stories.
STAMBERG: And for the grand finale, I had brought xeroxes of the recipe, and I passed them out.
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FRANK RUTA: One small onion.
STAMBERG: And each one read it.
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RUTA: Three-quarter cups sour cream.
STAMBERG: Got to the last one. He read it. He stopped halfway. He said...
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ROLAND MESNIER: And shocking pink. And after that, just throw it out.
(LAUGHTER)
STAMBERG: Tear it up.
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
STAMBERG: And he gave us - gave me my grand finale.
SHAPIRO: Perfect.
STAMBERG: Right.
SHAPIRO: For years, you reported on visual arts...
STAMBERG: Right.
SHAPIRO: ...Which is difficult to do on the radio.
STAMBERG: Yeah. Impossible. That's why I did it.
SHAPIRO: Is that why?
STAMBERG: Yes, absolutely. You can't do it. And so I decided that couldn't be correct. I can do this.
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STAMBERG: There's a flickering 1915 black-and-white film that shows Renoir painting despite his afflictions.
These hands are tragic to look at. They look like the stumps of very, very old trees. You can barely see...
It took me a while to do it. But I could shift to biography, which is always the most interesting anyway.
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STAMBERG: Conductor, music director of major orchestras, the complete musician. I'm Susan Stamberg, NPR News.
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SHAPIRO: One of our colleagues told us that every day, when it was time to leave, you would say the same thing.
STAMBERG: Go home, girls. It's getting dark.
SHAPIRO: That's it.
STAMBERG: Was that it, really?
SHAPIRO: What did that phrase mean to you? Go home, girls. It's getting dark.
STAMBERG: And I say it for a roomful of guys, too.
SHAPIRO: Yeah.
STAMBERG: It's just a making community thing to say. Let's go home, and tomorrow we'll show up again. That's all.
SHAPIRO: Susan Stamberg, I don't want to say goodbye to you.
STAMBERG: Aw.
SHAPIRO: I don't want this interview to end. I don't want your retirement to mean that we won't hear you on...
STAMBERG: Oh.
SHAPIRO: ...Our air anymore.
STAMBERG: Yeah.
SHAPIRO: Thank you for the more than 50 years that you have given all of us - the country, the network and me personally.
STAMBERG: Thank you so much, Ari. I love listening to you.
SHAPIRO: Thank you. I follow in your footsteps.
STAMBERG: (Laughter) Mine are bigger.
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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