This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
Joe Finley: My name is Joe Finley, and I'm on the board for the North Side food Co-op, and I have been ever since the food Co-Op has started a number of years ago, and I've been involved in this effort since 2018.
Cierra Washington: And I'm Cierra Washington. I'm the Executive Director of the North Side food Co Op. I have been with the co op Since 2020
Kelly Kenoyer: You have announced a pause on construction of the Northside food Co Op. Can you talk a little bit about what led to this decision?
Cierra Washington: Yeah, and maybe a point of clarification, I think when people hear the word pause, they get a little nervous, and it is just pause on construction, and not our entire project. So in November of last year, we heard the news, similar to everyone else, that there was a bid placed on city property on Chestnut and Third Street, and there was rumors of a Publix coming downtown.
During that time, we were already in the process of redoing our market study. It had been a couple of years, and we knew the neighborhood was changing, and so we were able to factor that into our market study. And when we did that, we noticed that it was going to affect some of the numbers, sales, foot traffic, things like that, in a very, very big way for the co op. And I think typically, people like to think, if you have multiple grocery stores near each other, it's just good for the economy, it's good competition.
And that typically works for corporate grocery stores, but when you're looking at smaller community-based grocery stores, it has a bigger effect on us. And so as a co op, I think that the board and the staff really wanted to take a moment to say, 'Okay, we know that this is really going to affect us, and how do we be the most responsible with our resources and time so that we're creating the best store possible for our community that will be ongoing for years and years to come.'
Kelly Kenoyer: So I'm curious about what that means for the location, because it seems like the location being where it is so close to the Publix also kind of tucked back in the neighborhood, rather than being on one of the major thoroughfares, is probably one of the biggest reasons that that was such a strong impact. So are you considering alternate locations for this co op in the future.
Cierra Washington: At this time, we are staying with the location that we have right now. If there are changes with that, the community and the members would be the first to know, and we kind of have that discussion with them. But for now, we we are going to stay where we're at.
Kelly Kenoyer: So it sounds like the plan is to take a step back and reconsider. Are you looking at a smaller grocery store? What are some of the options you're weighing?
Joe Finley: I think the biggest piece is looking at how we can continue to drive more foot traffic to the store and then drive more cars actually to the store as well. Because of where we are, tucked away a little bit in the Northside, we know that it's going to have a deep impact on that neighborhood, on that community, but the numbers before were telling us that we also needed people coming from outside the neighborhood to help ensure that the store ultimately thrives and can survive over a long period of time.
Once we got wind of the potential of a Publix going downtown and saw how that potentially would impact things from a financial side, that's when we realized we need to do some other things in order to ensure that we're getting more people to come to this grocery store. So that's what we're looking at now, and that's why we took the pause. It is to say, do we need to make a bigger grocery store? Do we need to say the same size? Do we need to offer something alongside that will then draw more attention? That way we can ensure that we have more people coming to the store overall, and ideally pulling some people off of that path to Publix and to the Northside Food Co-Op.
Kelly Kenoyer: The streets that that location is kind of situated on aren't really throughways. They're more it's more of a dead end kind of situation. So it seems like the traffic there is always going to be destination driven. It's not going to be people who happen to walk by and go, 'Ooh, I may as well poke my head in there.' Are you looking at trying to modify the streetscape in some way to change that. And who would you need to go to to make that happen?
Cierra Washington: Yeah, so that was part of the plan. So the Co-op is situated on 10th and Post Street. And Post Street isn't actually a full street. So it would kind of divide the property line between our site and the DREAMS location. So one thing that was for sure in our plan was to go ahead and extend that all the way through so that there could be two entry points to the grocery store. In terms of altering any other streets or making a throughway that has not been in our plan. And I think that would be something that would need to be discussed with DOT. Whereas, like something as simple as Post Street, we have a little bit more control over locally.
Kelly Kenoyer: I know you've in the past gotten support from the city, the county, the endowment. How can these institutions support you through this transition to try and make sure the co op is able to get off the ground?
Joe Finley: You know, they have already been a huge support so far, because in us taking a step back when we got this information concerning publics and how we saw that it was going to impact, potentially impact things with the market study numbers, we went immediately to our partners and said, 'Look, we think we need to take a second look at this and make sure that we're walking down the right path in order to ensure that your investment in us and our investment in this community is going to be as successful as possible.' No one wants to stand up a store only to see it have struggles and failure soon thereafter. So they've been behind us the entire time, saying, 'all right, you go off, figure out what you need to make this thing work. Come back and talk to us, and we want to help you make this happen.'
Kelly Kenoyer: One other thing that I've heard from the community is, why don't we have the co op partner with Publix? Has there been any discussion of that? Has that happened in any other communities that you know of? How could that work?
Cierra Washington: Yeah, I think all things were on the table at one point, and we are totally open to having conversations with folks who are buying the property at Third and Chestnut. But we do know that that bidding process was a bit more concealed, and it wasn't very open to the public in terms of like reaching out and having conversation. And so as part of that, we wanted to take our time to also figure out what other opportunities could there be if there was no partnership, that could happen, but that definitely did cross our minds.
Kelly Kenoyer: So you're open to it, but you haven't been — Nobody's reached out to you.
Joe Finley: No.
Kelly Kenoyer: Have you reached out to Publix? Do we know it's a Publix?
Joe Finley: That has been what has swirled, you know? But no, I don't think that's been confirmed at all, at least via Publix, for sure, it's not been confirmed, and I don't even think it's been confirmed through the group that has bought the property. I think they have been relatively quiet about all of this, as developers are. But we know the intentions, by listening to our folks and our politicians who are super excited about the fact that there is a potential for that store to come and rightfully so for downtown. But no one — we haven't been able to connect with anyone there, but we have talked about, wouldn't that be interesting? You know, maybe we can be an extension in some way, to the north side. There's a variety of ways that we could partner or work together in order to make their entrance into our community more welcoming, and at the same time give us a better opportunity to thrive and survive.
Cierra Washington: And I think that's something that's beautiful about the co-op model in general, is like- we are creating a community driven entity, right? And so we get to be a bit more creative. We get to have these discussions, because the whole point of this is food sovereignty and food access. And so if we get to be the creative ones that goes to a larger institution to say, 'but what about this? Like you haven't done this in the past, but this is a community in need. Maybe we can figure it out for you, or we can figure it out together.' And I think that's pretty beautiful. I don't know if that'll happen in our situation, but by all means, I just think in general, the co-op model lends itself to creativity for the community and the institutions that are around it.
Kelly Kenoyer: I think that we've heard some of this discussed publicly. Basically, if there's a Publix there, then the whole issue of a food desert is resolved. So maybe we don't need the co-op anymore. We've heard people saying things like that. Can you make your strongest case for why there should still be a co-op?
Cierra Washington: Yeah, so at our core, we're more than a grocery store. The Co-op is something that brings pride and unity to the North Side Community. Also at its core, the co-op is working on affordable food for all people, and while Publix is a great option, it's not super accessible for all folks of all income levels in our community. And so we still want to serve that initial community that lived in the Northside, gentrification or not. Our Northsiders were always asking for a grocery store that could meet their needs. And so we are really attuned to that, whereas I think a larger corporation is going to just continue doing the things that they do, right? So we're in it for community. We're in it to make sure everyone can access the food, and we're in it to make sure that that people aren't left behind in the business of it all.
Joe Finley: And I think part is making sure that the store is, in part, greatly a reflection of the Northside in a variety of ways, and the people that live there now the history of the Northside as well. We're very mindful about all of that, and that as we open the store and the products that we sell, the people we partner with, we want to partner with farmers in our community who then bring things up to our store. You know, other larger stores, they may do that for a variety of reasons, but it is true to our mission and who we are overall, as Cierra just spoke to.
Cierra Washington: And I think that the workforce development piece of like, who are we hiring from? Our intention is to always hire Northside residents, and being intentional about that, being intentional about how do we make food affordable through EBT WIC or other subsidized means. You know, I think that that piece is really huge, as well as the community — this is theirs. And so once you empower a community in one way, think about all of the other possibilities that can flourish within that in a business aspect, because this is a business and so it's inspiring people to look at food and look at business differently.
Joe Finley: I think Cierra hit it from the beginning. First thing she said, we've realized from the start, or since we all got into this, it's more than just a grocery store. It really, really is. It's a it is a sense of a place within this community that people can identify with and say that I'm a part of that. That's something that I've helped bring about and helped start. And we have so many people in this community that have reached out and are so excited that this is going to happen, and we want to assure them that we are behind this 1,000% do you know, as board members, as staff, we are we truly are going to see this thing through.
Cierra Washington: A pause does not mean we're stopping. A pause does not mean we're in some dire situation and we won't be able to move forward a pause simply means we want to be responsible with the resources we've been given so that we can create the best thing with our community.
Kelly Kenoyer Well. Joe Finley, Cierra Washington from the Northside Food Co-op. Thank you so much for joining us.
Editor's note: Last year, the New Hanover Community Endowment approved a three-year $6.8-million grant to support the Co-op. According to an Endowment spokesperson, "The Northside Food Coop has advised that it is reviewing what effect, if any, another supermarket downtown may have regarding its business plan. Our commitment is unchanged pending that review and all funds are held in escrow by the county in the meantime."
